An enlightening article from 2009: http://www.republicoflakotah.com/2009/k%c8%9fe-sapa-and-paha-sapa-russell-means-response-to-david-swallow/

it should seem evident the migration took place before 1750 as Arvol LookingHorse family has recorded 19 generations of keeping of White Buffalo Calf Woman Pipe where i humbly mention i met a Maya woman who said they have a tablet of a woman with a pipe and she refered to White Buffalo Calf Woman http://www.nchistoricsites.org/town/pee-dee.htm

pahanna, thank you for this article. In 1997, when I was recovering with both arms in a cast, I read a book called, "Trail of the Soiux". It talks about the movements of the "Souian" language. It spoke of the origins of the language in the southeast. I do not recall any dates, but I accepted the conclusion with a grain of salt. I am not sure how "scholars" can determine any time frame of a migration based upon the evolution of a language. I believe alot of it is conjecture and specultaion. I have seen a dramatic change in the english language in the past 30 years. Yet, our form of english is radically different from great britian, and we left them less than 300 years ago.

Where your article discusses the burial mounds, it reminds me of the mounds in the ohio valley, where I grew up. These mounds were built by the Adena and Hopewell cultures 2000-3000 years ago. Then again, the Adena and Hopewell were the "grandfathers" of the more recent Missippian culture.

If you were to have any more similar links, I would appreciate a chance to check them out.

the black drink or whte drink http://www.smokymountainnews.com/index. ... /item/2412

i went to the coast 20 years back and got some and tried it out, forgot to roast the leaves
Flip here is another one on Town Creek Mound http://www.ourstate.com/mount-gilead/

Here is a description of Ilex Vomitoria in the book Cherokee Plants Their Uses-A 400 year history Yaupon,southern:cassine:dahoon;Used for dropsy and gravel;"black drink"tea causing sweating which purifies physically and morally;used to evoke ecstasies;"No one is allowed to drink it in council unless he has proved himself a brave warrior"(James Adair)

Hey Pahanna Did you have some weird hallucinations with the unroasted leaves? Or did you just throw up? I used to sell yaupon holly when I worked at Mother Earth landscaping in South Carolina.I didn't know at that time it was the "black drink" plant. We just sold it to landscape the home and I was told it is poisonous. Here's a video with Kevin Costner as host- 500 Nations;The Story of Native Americans 1 and 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLM-HKPi7r4 This is the second video but I couldn't pull up the first.You can still find it when you pull this one up. Jennifer

hey Jennifer, i got about 1/2 pound of leaves and brought them home and cooked them for about a hour and drank the juice, it was kinda hard to get down,kinda made me want to puke,but i didnt and i ddnt hallucinate, evidently the roastng is important like with coffee beans

Flip, i know more about my germanic ancestors than any of the others and i cant speak a lick of German and never knew anyone around here that could, no german anythng on grave stones and such, i have noticed Gaillic looking symbols on some

Pahanna, I forgot to ask you.What is the white drink? Jennifer

Jennifer the indians generally called t the white drink because of its purifying qualities according to what i read, Charles Hudson did a lot of research on it, a lot has got lost in the wars especially the Civil War as its called,

It is odd your next link was about the youpon holly. i just trimmed a large stand of it. One of my clients, planted his whole front yard with it. I keep it trimmed to about 30 inches tall, with the center stan about 4 ft tall. The next time I work for him I will take some pictures and post them. The name "Osceola" means "Black Drink Singer" .

About two miles from my parents house, in the valley of the "Beautiful River", the Ohio, i s a small mound. It is perhaps 12 ft tall with a 30 ft diameter. To my knowledge it has not been disturbed. Whenever I visit, I will stop by and just sit for a while. I dont know which culture it is attributed to.

http://www.motherearthlandscaping.com Go to the plant search database and then alphabetical listing and you will find Holly ilex vomitoria and then you will see a picture of the yaupon holly.This is where I used to work at.Jennifer PS Flip I still would like to see your pictures.

If you watch the video of my dog at work, you can see the yupon holly. I dont know if you can pause and zoom in to get a better picture of it.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php ... 8403275895