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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Lilac, thank you for the compliments.

I've lived with that guilt before, and it did prevent me from discovering my part and living it. For a time I repressed it, too, and it had severe consequences in my life. We must accept the past, not simply regret it, or it will destroy us.

We cannot make up for the atrocities of the past, but we can help ensure they do not continue in the present. I think First Nations people are justified in grouping us however they want to, until we decide to take a more active role in assisting them in their plight - should they want that help.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:04 pm 
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Location: Iowa
Ghostwarrior, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thought with me. Mr. JimCasey, its obvious you have spent much time in thought over these matters and have taught me a thing or two in your last couple of posts. I agree with those who understand these situations more than I: The US has spent centuries ignoring, covering, and lying regarding the plight of First Nation peoples in the past and present ( "my" elected representatives, so yes, I have blood on my hands too). therefore this needs to be addressed to the UN and international community. If this was happening to white people it would be on the front page of every newspaper until resolved. Therefore I respectfully agree with Mr. Casey's words:
Quote:
We cannot make up for the atrocities of the past, but we can help ensure they do not continue in the present. I think First Nations people are justified in grouping us however they want to, until we decide to take a more active role in assisting them in their plight - should they want that help.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:21 pm 
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We have to continually pray to the Great One that all these bad things will end.Love the Great One and be close to him everyday.Treat the Earth with respect because she is alive.Love others as you would yourself.Show respect and help others.Give assistant where needed.Work and donate your time and resources to help all of mankind. Keep yourself healthy in body and mind and doing that means you respect yourself.Always be truthful and honest and take responsibility for the things you do.Do what you know to be right.If all of us do these things then the bad things will end.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Jen,

"Gods" and "Great Ones" love those who love themselves; help those who help themselves. Great mysteries of life are boundless; we can't rely on supernatural powers or miracles to help us do our good works and deeds. You may know this already.

If we first do what we know is right... then we find respect for ourselves, find humility by working with others, we grow and learn to persevere. One can get lost in "thinking" about what is right, "thinking" about respect and love, until you "think" that you've done it... but you've just sat on your haunches and thought away all your time. I know, because I've done that too.

Sometimes bad things do not end, even if you are right-minded and good-hearted. The universe is simply a hostile place at times, beings gnawing at each other and fighting over small things. We must acknowledge that, too, and be prepared to defend the Earth and all our relations... even better, we should learn to live in real harmony with the planet, start to lose our white-ways and listen to the wisdom of the world for guidance. I'm learning to grow food, its slow and small, but its a start.

Whenever I hear someone speak of a god and they call it "He"... praise "him", love "him", abide in "him"... I swear, alarm bells go off in my head.

I don't know any man-gods. If gods do exist, or one god, why would it be a "He"? It just doesn't make any sense - we are men and women because we need to procreate - why would a god or a spirit need to procreate? They have no bodies to reproduce!

No, the only gods I know are the sun and sea and sky. I love them like I love my mother, I respect and sometimes fear them like I did my father. You feel that too, I'm sure.

The Great Mystery around us is far more worthy of awe and prayer than any god-thing.

Just wanted to say those things. Jim Casy was a preacher, after all, albeit a very lost one...


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:53 pm 
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God can be a she or a he or an it.I have no idea what gender God is.To me God is a spirit and a spirit has no gender.It was a figure of speech.Everyone has their opinion about things,but if everyone on this earth tries to do better,it will be a better place for all of us to live in.Jennifer PS I am also meaning The Great Mystery


Last edited by Craig on Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Jim,I am glad that you are growing food.We all need to be more self-sufficient.I have been growing food all of my life.I been canning and preserving food since I was in my twenties.I went to school for horticulture.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:09 pm 
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I brought up the god-gender issue because it is something I commonly find whites saying without thinking about it. The more you say something without thinking about it, even if its a figure of speech, the more it begins to inform your reality.

I think if you believe in a universal spirit, if you believe in the forces of the planet and their beauty and mystery, we should do our best to choose words that better represent that... instead of using words and phrases that most white christians use, because that is a group that has historically been incredibly callous and outright criminal when it comes to First Nations culture & heritage.

I have a pressure-cooker now, and would like to start canning this year. I've been using it for growing culinary mushrooms like shiitakes and oysters. You use it to sterilize their food before "planting" the spores. It's satisfying to see "dirt" turn into beautiful mushrooms!


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:50 pm 
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I haven't grown mushrooms yet but thanks for the idea.I might grow some.I have dried some wild mushrooms,though.I know, Christians have caused terrible things for the Indians.I grew up white and Christian only to know I am neither in my old age,only part white.I hate what the Christians did to my family.My family was assimilated.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:22 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
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hau mitakuyapi... sorry i have not had the oppurtunity to respond to all these great replies. Our cousins ghost and storm bring up valid points from a L/D/N perspective, while those of other nations also have many good points.

I would like to add to this discussion with a question .... and please allow me to state that many here understand my personal agenda with language, culture, and tradition .... how do we as a people...L/D/N meet at the halfway point considering the appeal of those that are educated in tribal and american politics with more traditional identity issues that face our nation?

Many times if you set down 5 people, idealology(sp) gets in the way of actual compromise and solutions. Do any believe or have ideas on how we can meet the simple needs of our people first without compromising the long term goals of the nations?

I will thank all at this point in case I am once again detained from replying to all the posts....toksa ake


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:01 am 
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horseman,

It's this one's opinion that the L/D/N community need not travel very far to find that "middle" ground. The simple act of being open to meeting in the middle with respect to non-L/D/N people, that is enough in my view. Please correct me if I misunderstand - perhaps that is not the middle-ground you speak of?

But if so, it seems to me that those who would wish to be considered indigenous-allies as GW says, we should be the ones to extend ourselves and offer whatever help that we can. That help can be accepted or not. It's not dishonorable to have to prove yourself and your principles to those you respect.

The idea of making a case with the U.N. is sound. Some research should be done, especially regarding how the Gaza strip was able to appeal for state-hood through the U.N. The Gaza-Israel conflict, though more heated at the moment, is not without its parallels to the LDN/US relationship. It'd also be prudent to look into other international organizations with legal/protections information for other indigenous communities, such as those in South America fighting Big Oil, and others in Canada. I can help sort through that kind of information, maybe even establish some contacts or just point people in the right direction.

I also posted about map-making, which is one of my main skills at the moment. It's how I make a living, but since maps can be very important to organizing and developing a geographic framework for legal issues and other things, I'd gladly volunteer mapping services to the LDN community as well.

That post : http://www.republicoflakotah.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3496

So... is this the middle-ground, or closer to it? Where those who respect the First Nations people, who have been influenced by their culture and beliefs for the better, instead of walking in like we "own the place"... it is better that we offer what help and brotherhood we can, even if its as simple as buying from LDN merchants (something I've meant to do for a while).

The issues the nations face are incredibly difficult, but I think that by establishing a better sense of sovereignty, by forcing the US government to come to terms with its treaties, the L/D/N community would be more empowered to solve their problems. That is a long road and a difficult one, but as I said... America should have an L/D/N nation at its heart. I can speak for many of my friends and peers who would agree with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:03 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
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altho i do appreciate all suggestions...i was wondering how to remove the friction between todays "warriors" for treaty rights and the such versus those people like me that believe the revitalization of language, culture and tradition.

there is no doubt that our way of life has been desecrated from the influx of the european invasion .... boarding schools.... alcoholism.... gang activity... otherwise the acceptance of euro=american life. we try to justify this behaviour by calling it assimulation...and remember...this is just my perspective.... instead of relying on more traditional methods to crush the problems.

euro-americcan thought is to place you in a victim mentality so they always have a grip on your throat.... L/D/N thought is to take responsibility for your actions and correct the mistakes. do you believe as L/D/N that we have been "brainwashed" into believing we can never break the cycle? just more questions.... remember...give thanks for today...for it was never promised


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:30 am 
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The Lakota Nation has limited choices for it's survival.The Lakotas and other Indian nations have been pushed to that point.I think some Indians are using the victim cycle or they would fight to get out of their situation.I am not saying all are doing this but some are.Maybe the answer for Lakotas is to continually revitalize,rebuild,and stabilize their heritage and language and develop an economic and social infrastructure that will allow them to strengthen their culture,social and economic relationships to the remaining lands for all the Lakota reservations to work together as one.I know some of the lands are no good for growing food but there are some lands that are good, and if they all work together as one they will be a strong Nation.Then maybe Pine Ridge, being the hardest hit, can pull itself up by it's boot strings. Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:33 pm 
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In addition to what I said before,Work on what resources you do have.Sometimes things on the reservation are better than what is in the rest of America.Having a culture is the one thing white America does not have.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
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Location: north carolina
it looks to me everyone of all tribes is enveloped in a cloud of convusion anymore thru a large element that makes what should be simple very complicated, at one time the tribes here had different languages but same subsistance depending on location, the problem to me lays with the radical element in this land, they are radical about politics and spirituality, anything different than there beliefs and you get labeled radical or evil, i consider myself a moderate but have been told that "they" think i am radical, their big issue is the communist babble,right,the Catholic popes say it is evil, at the same time all the roads and schools and libraries got built thru a communistic means, i say there is a balance between the capitalist/communist paradigm, right now we need a vehicle for our subsistance , we could pull together and create a hybred vehicle, but hell no we got to get brainwashed with abortion, homosexuals. and other devirsions to keep us at each other, i think Ed Magaa told it right when a man here in this area had a vision and saw something coming across the ocean and there was something evil inside of it, i just saw a article where this Catholic dude said it was on against Obama over the Planned Parenthood issue, that dude needs to stay out of other peoples business is my thoughts


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:16 am 
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Is it possible that this divide has always existed in the L/D/N nations? The more volatile warriors, ready to take up arms and fight for their tribe and gain honor, and those who look more to the preservation of the tribe and its ways? It is the same in many societies, even European.

Before the Europeans came, it was much easier to maintain balance in the First Nations though - the wishes of the warriors and the well-being of the tribe would have been in harmony most of the time. When any society loses its home, its sovereignty, that harmony is destroyed, and the warriors and elders begin to fight one another. Again, same with white societies.

One thing that is difficult for a warrior-people to accept is defeat - and the First Nations were defeated, even though it was through treachery and some very bad circumstances, especially disease brought on by the Europeans themselves. Though a victim-mentality is not natural to the L/D/N people, psychologically, it is important to accept that some people, innocent children for instance, were made into victims by the genocide during the "indian wars".

It is all very hard to accept, for indigenous-allies, even more-so for those who are reminded of these things every day, living on the res. Perhaps your young warriors still have the spirit that they must take arms and fight somehow against their oppressors, but they must know that that war is now over.

However, a new war is being fought, and it is a cultural war. But here I think you have the upper hand. The U.S. government is not making it a priority to destroy your culture - I think the assumption is that it will die off on its own. However, your spiritual ways are in tact, your language still persists, and that must be fought for at all costs. I say this as someone who does not speak the language, I simply know that is true.

So perhaps the answer is to make those with the minds of warriors to realize, to save your cultural heritage and your language is the most effective way to fight against your oppressors. The battle with arrows and bullets has been fought many decades ago, and the battle for words has been fought since then.

Save your words, your language, your ways - teach your young warriors, to win this fight you need their help. If they see saving your language as a fight, perhaps they will start to understand and listen. Save your ways and watch as us whites devour ourselves with our own folly.

That was foreseen by your wise-men and elders long ago, as I've read... that us whites would be tied-up in our web-cities, we would have no escape when disasters strike. That has already happened in some places and I believe it will continue. I believe its my place to try and show my white-siblings our folly, show them that our society has robbed itself of spirit, that we are dooming ourselves - but it is hard enough just to keep my own spirit healed. It does not look good for us.

Save your Sioux ways, make that your biggest priority. I was raised in this society that once made you all its enemy, and I know that A strong, resurgent Sioux nation and culture - that is the only antidote in this continuing struggle.

This post makes me want to learn more L/D/N words...


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:02 pm 
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As you know I am pretty ignorant regarding the L/D/N Nations so please excuse me if I make a mistake and feel free to correct me. I agree with Jim Casey:
Quote:
That was foreseen by your wise-men and elders long ago, as I've read... that us whites would be tied-up in our web-cities, we would have no escape when disasters strike. That has already happened in some places and I believe it will continue. I believe its my place to try and show my white-siblings our folly, show them that our society has robbed itself of spirit, that we are dooming ourselves - but it is hard enough just to keep my own spirit healed. It does not look good for us.


Today I came across this on youtube. Again, corrrect me if I err in copying this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8svWTEApvnY


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Lilac,

David Swallow is referring to Crazy Horse' prophecies, which I haven't read much about past reading his autobiography. I'll find the quotation I'm talking about when I get home - I don't believe it was a Lakotah, but it was one of the nearby tribal elders/wisemen.

What stuck with me about his prophecy was how our white cities would turn into webs, that we'd get trapped in... and I read the prophecy while I was on a plane, and looking out the window I could see a big highway intersection, all the roads tangled up in knots, all the people stuck in traffic below. I imagined if anything really bad were to happen there, those roads would be useless, they'd get you trapped there in the city.

Again, I'll find it and post here later. My point was that white society is deprived spiritually. People think they have religion and spirit, but most of it is delusional. Most of white religion now, sadly, is just a lot of people getting together and agreeing to hate other people. A small number have found real spirituality, like the hippies and young people who discovered how to have vision quests, but it can be very fleeting and hard to hold onto. That's because we don't have a heritage, or a link with the land to keep us grounded in our ways like the First Nations people have had for centuries.

It is very humbling to think about.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:55 pm 
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I agree that white society is spiritually deprived; I would even go as far as to say spiritually depraved. The bible has been interpreted to justify countless evil deeds --I'm sure thats not news to anyone here. And then they go to church on Sunday and pat themselves on the back for being such good christians. That's my heritage and I curse it but I think for us whites its too late; I believe we will pay. If their is a "god" I'm sure he, she, or it has turned their back on us. I think too alot of the "hippies", well they dropped out for awhile but now for the most part have rejoined white society and breed little materialistic spiritually destitute kids. Why don't they see this? I don't know...I just don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Ina Maka is the key to the Lakota's survival and for us all.We are also in agreement about the Lakotas saving their culture and language.NDN horseman will be proud of us.We are also in agreement about Christianity.Lilac,Christianity is my heritage,too.I am a Baptist preacher's daughter.I know now why my Indian grandmother would never step foot in the church except for weddings and funerals.I know now why my grandmother always clashed with my father,her son-in-law. Jennifer PS Will someone please tell me how you got those pictures by your user name? I would like to have one.Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:53 pm
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Hau all,

Ndn, I have a question.
ndnhorseman wrote:
altho i do appreciate all suggestions...i was wondering how to remove the friction between todays "warriors" for treaty rights and the such versus those people like me that believe the revitalization of language, culture and tradition.


I don't understand why the two must be exclusive? Can you not revitalise the language, culture and traditions yet still fight for treaty rights? It seems to this slow one that the fight for the Paha Sapa, language, culture and tradition are all married together.


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