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 Post subject: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:26 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Most of this is reposted from this thread started by Thermlin:
[url]http://www.republicoflakotah.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3330
[/url]

I've seen a few wasichu come and go over the past 2 years or so on the forums, now adding Eliakim to that list as it appears she is gone. Her blatant, patronizing overtures and convoluted prophecies are typical of the Euro-Colonial mindset, always assuming to know what is in the best interest of others, and asking that they bend to and accept your will as reality.

A time was when ideas similar to hers crept in on me as well - perhaps it is the "white guilt" that makes us seek out magical explanations or mystical possibilities for attempting to set aright what history shows us has been so horribly wrong. The injustice, the genocide, lasting suffering. Someone like Eliakim can ease that personal pain by saying she was of the First-Nations in a past life - as admittedly, I once myself believed.

What I learned, though... is that even were that true, if my strange and sometimes terrible dreams as a native man were in fact genetic memories, if the pain I felt when contemplating the suffering of the First-Nations people was in fact some kind of lasting emotional trauma, tracing back to my own death and the death of my loved ones... So What?

Why would I ever bring that to bear in my dialogue with the living blood of the Lakotah people? What relief would that provide, what justice? None, truly - none at all. The most it could do is make me feel better. What I have also learned, though, is that feeling better disallows you from seeking out real justice, relief, change. To be comfortable and content is to fail to acknowledge the continuing abuses of power, the insatiable greed, malice and horror that plagues the first-nations people, and indeed, us all.

From my own wasichu-perspective, it seems to me that wannabees need not be defended. I don't "want-to-be" a native man, because that is not what I am. Yet as I strive to become a man myself, I would wish to be one with the dignity, the perseverance, the strength of will of the men whose words humble me each time I come to this place.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:48 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
this is a good repost...its funny how i was thinking about the "guilt" syndrome that many european and euro-americans feel. I do not question anyone if they tell me they are Lakota...Cherokee...or whatever nation .... what i usually ask is do they speak thier language...do they know thier culture... i watch what they write on forums and many times i have the oppurtunity to hear them tell me about themselves. this is where the people who are serious about thier heritage and the "wanna-bes" become seperated. those that are serious will start to tell you about thier culture and experiences...wether good or bad.... when they started to inter act with thier own people... the wanna be will usually quote you stories from the internet or some book. but back to the guilt complex.....

we know the history about europeans and the american indian .... yet, do these same people that are of german descent seek out jewish people and attempt to apologize and become jewish? do those of english descent attach themselves to the irish?...well you all see where that is going.... so the question arises....why the american indian? why the Lakota or the Cherokee? what makes whites attach themselves to these 2 nations? i knew a miqmaw that had no clue as to her heritage...yet, she could tell you about the Lakota.... still attaches herself to every Lakota she meets...or tries to until she is found out....by he way...the miqmaw have no clue as to who she is .....

the point is this.... if you follow Lakota ways...learn the language and the culture... so goes the same for the Cherokee and any other nation.... but as for the guilt complex...i wish someone could explain that to me...

toksa ake


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:19 am 
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Well,someone can feel guilty on me.LoL Not only am I Cherokee, Shawnee,Powhatan,Creek and Nippising.I am Scotch-Irish.Some of my Scottish people were Jews!!!! (This is the truth.) I don't like what has happened to my families and I am interested in all of them.I feel bad for all of them.Some people might not know this but here in America when the Irish came over they were treated just as bad as the Indians were treated.We are all people and the prejudices and genocides are uncalled for.All this has to stop.Then the good people will stop feeling guilty about others.I don't know why people lean towards the Indians.Just take it as Indians are unique and special!!!! Jennifer PS Ndnhorseman,can I ask you something?What do you do for a living?Just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:41 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 178
Location: north carolina
well i will tell you where my guilt is,it is in a system that has become evident in disregard for true wealth in the form of a well maintained Paradise Garden, a system that is blinded by ego and infiltrated with fork tongues that confuse those that cant see past their lies, like right now i am trying to figure what the hell is going on with Barach Obama, is the Chevy Volt a masterfull action to maybe get a car that we can have like Ford did with the A model. it is hard to know because of the political shell game and the lies getting thrown around, who gives a rats ass if his birth cirtificate is from Mars, what counts is truly helping the People and the Planet, people making a living shelling out lies is bullshit, yea i feel guilty that this bullshit has got pushed on Ancient lifeways and it needs to get fixed


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:58 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
hey Jennifer...actually i work in a battery factory...i rebuild and maintain all the dies and tooling that we use...i am also part of the maintenance team... so turning wrenches on machinery is part of my job ... its not rocket science, so that should tell you that i am not the sharpest knife in the drawer...lol....

pahanna ... even tho early euro-ameriican culture was forced down the native peoples throats...we now have the ability to stand up and either take control of our own lives or continue to help with the cultural genocide. as human beings we can never agree on a single thing to improve our state of disorder...so as a smaller comglomeration of people...i doubt we will change .... i do like the "modern" convienences or cars and computers...a having a cell phone makes my life easier .....altho i heat with wood.... still split wood by hand.... continue to practice the lakol wi'chohan the best i know how.... so for the way this country is...i guess we should all feel guilty about that as we participate in it everyday.

as for those that suffer guilt.... as i said before ...if you want to help us...step aside and allow us to figure it out.... we have been here before...language rivitalization.... and good old indian tenacity will prevail in the end


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Maybe for some of us it’s not so much as feeling of guilt but rather of empathy, to some degree. No, I don’t know what it’s like to have relatives not that far in the past brutally exterminated or made to live in barren land, but I do know what it’s like to be brought up in an alcoholic home, I know what it’s like to be strung out and homeless and looked down upon. I understand the importance that the Nations maintain their traditions and culture in order to prevent being sucked up the whirlwind of this fucked up society, I get that. Maybe some of us whites feel left out because our ancestors came from Europe although we are here now. Mine come from Germany and I have no desire to dress up in lederhosen, drink beer out of steins, and dance the polka, lol.

What I guess I’m trying to say is that we are all in this land together NOW and if one genuinely is drawn to a certain group (not out of guilt but because it makes more sense than anything else) well than, as long as no one tries to impose their personal agendas, is that detrimental?


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:55 am
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Location: Lakota Colony on our Eastern Frontier
People of the first nations do not make good victims otherwise we would not still be here in any capacity other than assimilated little tools. When you are beat down by someone with one hand will you take thier other hand to help you up again and trust the individual to not beat you down again with the hard hand while holding you up with the empathetic soft hand? Or look at it as an abusive relationship, I am sure if you were speaking to a battered woman who is beaten weekly the advice would be break all ties with abuser, or would you say we are all in the same house now and should just learn to live with it?


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Speaking for myself, as I can only do, I try not to judge individuals by their baggage, that is, who begot them and what their deeds were, but rather what’s within that particular person. Experiences in my life have caused me to distrust others; as I journey thru life I realize not everyone out there is out to do me harm. Being able to “read” people is a skill that is important to pick up in this life. It’s difficult to truly connect with others via the internet. They say 85 percent of communication is nonverbal so therefore none of us can really “read” another person online. So much unfortunately is “lost in translation.” It would be different if we could look into each other’s’ eyes and see the human beings residing therein. And as for living in the same house and learning to live with it—no, absolutely not. Bolt and burn the mf down (I don’t mean disrespect with some of my word choices, it’s just the way I think and sometimes talk to get a point across).


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:37 pm 
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As long as we strive to be good people and help others,it doesn't matter where we come from or what has been done in the past.It was not our fault because we were not a part of that.We have to look to the future to change it for the good and the wicked rich need to go.With people like us in the world who can lose.....NDN I heat with wood,too......And Hey Pahanna!I did not leave this crazy forum after all.I guess I love everyone too much.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:45 am 
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Location: Crow Creek, Dakota Territory
StormsRider wrote:
People of the first nations do not make good victims otherwise we would not still be here in any capacity other than assimilated little tools. When you are beat down by someone with one hand will you take thier other hand to help you up again and trust the individual to not beat you down again with the hard hand while holding you up with the empathetic soft hand? Or look at it as an abusive relationship, I am sure if you were speaking to a battered woman who is beaten weekly the advice would be break all ties with abuser, or would you say we are all in the same house now and should just learn to live with it?


Hau mitakuyepi...SR this is an outstanding analogy because this is THE exact logic behind the colonial argument known as "get over it" is it not? the americans as the abuser are telling the world that we all live in the same house as happy americans when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. i am always heartened by those who see the truth for what it is and sometimes wonder how men and women from across the planet can feel such remorse and guilt when there are Dakod, Lakol and Nakoda men and women now serving as colonial oppressors of their own People in the hear and now who feel nothing for their own People.

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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:55 am 
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You cannot trust someone who has continued to beat you down.Even though sometimes things might seem good but it keeps you on edge thinking the abuse is going to happen again at any moment.You cannot be happy or at peace under these circumstances.You carry a lot of hurt and anger on the inside. It is certainly hard to live like that. Jennifer


Last edited by Craig on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:03 am 
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Quote:
or would you say we are all in the same house now and should just learn to live with it?


What draws me to this site/forum is the central idea behind it: the establishment of the Republic of Lakotah. I agree, the US government has not honored their treaties with the First Nations people, therefore legally and morally making them null and void. From what I gather (and believe me, I'm still gathering) is that anyone is invited to participate who possesses a like mind and heart. Have I missed or misinterpreted something?


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Maybe we are all on the same page but writing it down maybe hard to express.Lilac, I know we are not Lakotas,but we do have a right to voice our opinion.I know we have not lived their lives,but then again they have not lived our lives either.I don't know about you,but I haven't had the greatest of life either or I wouldn't have written about understanding abuse.When you are in that situation ,you can stay in it and make the best of it or pull yourself out of it and go on.I don't live in that mental abuse anymore.No one has to.It was from a marriage.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:33 pm 
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I appreciate your message, Jennifer. It takes courage to leave a situation like that. But in a broader scope the US government beats us all down and I am tired of it. I don't have alot of money, I work hard but the government takes out so much due to its greedy appetite and uses my money to fund immoral endeavors. And of course I have no say where my hard earned cash goes. Talk about a screwing and not a pleasurable one.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:38 pm 
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The way I was feeling about my abuse is probably the way the Indians have been feeling all along since the invasion of the white man and the way the rest of Americans are feeling about our government as of late.A Lakota please comment.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:15 am 
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Thanks all for the comments, I'm glad for the discussion.

ndnhorseman, there are 2 important aspects of "White-Guilt" in America, in my view/experience:

1) While the English did indeed persecute the Irish for many many years, Southern Ireland eventually was given to the "native" people. It's similar to other past racial genocides (such as Germany with the Jews... now we have modern Israel). In America however, the First Nations have been displaced and dishonored, and their suffering continues to this day. I do not say this to victimize the people, only to highlight the fact that people like the Lakotah have been immensely betrayed, and given a seriously raw deal.

Anyone not totally blinded by their own ego or malice can see that... and so knowing, the closeness of the injustice can go straight to the heart of any reasonably empathic person. Guilt is the first response to that knowledge.

2) Interestingly, a great many whites in America have no spiritual/cultural center, because as ndnhorseman pointed out, they all migrated from their ancestral homelands in Europe. Since the 1960's especially, a certain portion of whites awakened to the idea of oneness with the land, which is an idea that underpins all First-Nations culture and spirituality.

So you have a situation where many whites (you might say the "hippies" and their offspring) became awakened to some aspect of the Great Mystery, and thirsted for it, and learned of the wisdom of the First Nations people. At the same time, they learned of the great injustices of their own forefathers who were ignorant of the wisdom and truth of the First Nations people...

It is like someone traveling across a barren spiritual desert, filled with concrete and asphalt, and stumbling across a beautiful Oasis (the ways of the Lakotah)... only to find that the waters are drenched with the blood of those you honor and respect, whom you sought to celebrate. Horror, guilt, shame, I believe all stem from that initial experience.

I feel this is the most significant factor which creates "white-guilt". It is difficult if not impossible for most whites to face that horror and shame, let alone to look about in the present and see more crisis for the First Nations. Sometimes its too much to bear, but bear it we must, and look instead to the tenacity and perseverance of the living Lakotah.

Where once I felt guilt, I now feel a sense of hope and inspiration. And if anyone should be pitied, or looked at as a victim, I'd say we should look to most whites in America who eat lies like candy, with very little hope of feeling awe at the great mysteries of life.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:27 am 
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Thank you, JimCasey for your well thought out superbly written take on the white guilt syndrome. As whites we cannot grasp many aspects of the ndn's viewpoint, and visa versa. When a white person first discovers the truth of the history of this land he/she cannot help but feel guilty for the deeds of their ancestors; I believe its part of the process as one begins to digest the heinous information. Some may continue living with guilt and therefore it prevents them from doing their part whatever that may be. Others stuff it along with other unpleasant realities and it affects their actions negatively on a subconcious level.

We can never ever make up for the horrors our ancestors are responsible for, it would be futile to even try to. I just ask that you look at us individually and try not to lump us into either the group of those who feel guilty or those who just don't give a damn.


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:22 am 
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Location: Crow Creek, Dakota Territory
Hau mitakuyepi the way this works is the united states is a republic and as a republic founded with democratic principles which if we go all the way back to the mayflower compact means that you had to be white and a landowner to vote so are those really democratic principles or just perpetuation of the the predominately colonial british mindset. When one can see through the "fog of colonialism" so many things become clear and whats clear to me is that these continuing acts of genocide in the here and now like the ethnic cleansing being done by sd governor dennis daugaard and the sd department of social services are clearly acts that fall within the jurisdiction of UNDRIP and with the understanding that there are many good americans out there i would say that the Dakod, Lakol and Nakoda People of Oceti Sakowin will no longer appeal to the good will of the americans to honor their own words but will present our case before the world community of nations. With that thought in mind i would also say that as a nation who prides itself on democratic principles i see many americans denying that very basic concept of citizenship by refusing to acknowledge that they are americans when it comes to the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Indigenous Peoples in this hemisphere. The underlying question remains....Who elects the politicans who have done these things... the american People. And so it is my own thought and understanding that these crimes against humanity are laid upon the doorstep of the american People and nation and rightly so whether any american chooses to own them or not.

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Damakotah!


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:24 am 
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Hau lilac...Indigenous Allies who come in a respectful manner are always welcome is my own thought on these things.

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Damakotah!


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 Post subject: Re: Pseudo-Spirituality & "White Guilt" Syndrome - Explanations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Ghostwarrior, thank you for your words. You validly bring up politics and its part in white-guilt & responsibility.. allow me as a white-American, and unproven indigenous-ally to throw in my 2 cents.

A majority of the youth in this country are entirely fed up with the current political system, as it is incredibly ineffective, wasteful, and corrupt. Few political candidates speak truth-to-power or seek to represent the principles of the original republic of the constitution, and those who do are demonized, or simply ignored by the mainstream-media.

The means of power in the modern world is the airwaves, and the people do not control that. You ask the question, "Who elects the politicians who have done these things...", but my answer is different. It is no longer simply, "the American people" who decide - without major corporate-backing and influence, without connections through mainstream media outlets, especially TV broadcast, without the military industrial complex and/or mass-scale commercial churches giving the "nod" to a candidate, you cannot be elected to a major position of power in the U.S. At least, not as things currently stand.

The "Occupy" protests were and are an attempt to change this, to make it to where the people CAN influence government, and have more power to elect the people they want to govern. The truth is that the "people" no longer occupy government - the government is occupied instead by bankers, wall-street insiders, corporate elites, and religious fanatics.

This is not to excuse American whites from taking responsibility for the past and current crimes against the First Nations people - were I elected to public office, whether or not I campaigned on it, I'd take immediate steps to honor all the old treaties, whatever was in my power to accomplish. This isn't the first time I've said it, I don't believe America will be able to progress into the future unless it takes a good hard look at itself and the crimes we have committed here, and try our best to make it right with those who still struggle to survive. It is the very least we can do.

It's a complicate matter, and it can be overwhelming. I've spent many nights and days trying to understand it. I agree that we whites must reconcile with our past by honoring the First Nations by immediately ceding over their territories per the old treaties. We must also recognize that the challenges between here-and-there are immense. A future America with a Lakotah nation at its heart is a country that I'd want to live in.

I fully support First Nations efforts to establish ties with the UN and to make the case heard by the international community, as should any indigenous ally. If I could be of any assistance in that effort, it'd be my honor.


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