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 Post subject: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:20 pm 
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The American Journal Jan.27,2012 on Native Americans origins.Now researchers are saying we might have come from Altai ,the southern part of Siberia.I wonder if that is true. Jennifer health.usnews.com/.../research/articles/2012/01/27native-americans


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
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Location: north carolina
i dont believe that, to many different languages and it implies the people here could not build a boat which is bullshit, it is just thinly veiled politics from my perspective, trying to keep the Columbus propaganda going, the Catawba word for bear is mato and the Cherokee word for bear is yona, not much similarity for people being in same area and crossing a land bridge at some point, just my opinion


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:47 pm 
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Who knows, Indians might have been on Turtle Island from the start of the world.The Creator might have placed different people in different spots.We have been lied to so much about America's history and the history of the world.It's hard to know what to believe anymore.What do I know I'm just a wild, scalping savage!! Oh,talking about scalping, the US government started it first by putting bounties on the Indians head and the whites ran with it to make money-$75 a head.Then the Indians did it as a retaliation and got blamed for it. Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:49 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
actually the "plains" indians took a small piece of hair when in warfare with thier "enemies" ... i use that word loosely .... so to blame "scalping" on european invaders is not true .... both sides have wriitten what is called revisionist history.

This is the reason I like to speak to "Elders" and not listen to stories by those that were involved with the 70's indian movements. Examples of this would be ...ie... Red Cloud .... he was not considered a hero with the Oglala . They called him a white mans chief .... now a days people look at him like he was a warrior to the end ....

as indians from ALL nations, we must start to speak to our "Elders" and find out our true stories and traditions before it is to late.


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:44 am 
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Location: Crow Creek, Dakota Territory
Hau Mitakeyapi... i would say that Makhpiya Luta's defense of the southern reaches of our territory was quite impressive considering the fact that he and 300 Lakota wicasa were the fighting force that brought american cavalry armies to a standstill more than once. Near the end acculturation was forced on everyone not by consent but for consideration of future generations many submitted. What i know is that what the wasicu call Siouan Languages exist way back east and far north and several thousand years into history. It is my own understanding of these things that the Great Mystery placed us here and for me thats all i need to understand.

_________________
Damakotah!


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:12 am 
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Thanks for giving me the truth.I ask the Creator for the truth on things every day. I wish I could go to the elders but I have no one to turn to. I go to Cherokee NC reservation once a year and have been going there my whole life. I am not a tribal member, though. I would love for someone to teach me the old traditions and customs. I want to live that way.I have loved and searched the old ways, my whole life.I guess I need to ask for help on this.Thanks ndnhorseman Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:46 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
tanhansi ghostwarrior... while you will not see me speak bad against another that is from the L/D/N nation .... and i wholeheartedly agree that those in our past history have done many great deeds .... my posts and comments are meant to make people search the truth out for themselves.

while many here understand my viewpoints, it is still hard for me to understand why people read and believe so much that is written on line and in books. thru my 53 years on the face of this earth, i have encountered many from various nations that say they follow the Lakota way of life, yet when questioned, most of thier knowledge comes from books or online communities. it is hard for me to understand why they do not learn about thier own peoples ways...thier stories...thier traditions... thier songs...

we all ...myself included, can make as many exscuses as we want.... but when you put one foot in front of the other... learning language...learning culture...learning about thier own people.... then we make a difference to help our own people.

i, myself, do not care what science says about where my people originated at. what i care about is that they survive the future by remaining L/D/N.... there is to much outside interference from the new agers and pan indian movement that limits our resourses to remain soveriegn independent nations.

you , yourself have started to learn your language... have become invovled with your own nations needs and politics .... you raise your children as Dakota .... and it is men like you that have helped stregnthen our nation. We as indian people need to focus on who we are now....where we are going...and remain loyal to our nations as our ancestors did. we need to continue on in our language, traditions and culture to remain seperate nations so we never forget who we are. i am proud to have you as a relative....

again, i hope you cabn see why i post what i do...especially in this thread. toksa ake


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:09 am 
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There are good ones in all people and there are bad ones in all people.I have also begun to learn the Cherokee language-Learning it online from Cherokee teachers from the Talking Leaves and Cherokee Home websites.I have tried to learn Shawnee but Cherokee comes easier to me. The pronunciations and accents on the words come easy to me since I naturally speak like that. But it sure is hard trying to remember the words.Cherokee teachers say it is a hard language to learn.They also say it is hard to lie in Cherokee.I wished I could have learn it when I was young.I learned 3 other languages in school. It's hard teaching an old woman a language. I am 58 years.There are very little fluent speakers of the Shawnee.I think is about 300 or 400 people.Cherokee has about 8000.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:53 pm
Posts: 654
Craig wrote:
The American Journal Jan.27,2012 on Native Americans origins.Now researchers are saying we might have come from Altai ,the southern part of Siberia.I wonder if that is true. Jennifer health.usnews.com/.../research/articles/2012/01/27native-americans


Jennifer, I am one that could never buy that land bridge theory. Every time a new artifact is found moving the date of this so called migration further back in history science acts like it doesn't apply to them because the have their "theory." At first it was 10,000 years ago, then 12,000, then 15,000 all based upon carbon dating. They ignore that these things are almost always in the most southern reaches of South America. So if they crossed 10,000 years ago how did they retrieve an artifact that was 10,000 years old? On youtube there is a young Lakota filmmaker that goes by pushthelimit. One day there was a discussion going on in the "Comments" section. I just clicked on a name and this person was a Lakota living in Mexico City. I asked if my suspicions about the land bridge were reasonable. He replied back for me to read Red Earth, White Lies by Vine DeLoria. It was, for me, very hard reading. However, it is one of the few books that I have read where I kept a bookmark for notes at the end of the book that gives the source for the author's statements. It was heartening, no, joy us to see that many, many of his sources were the US Congress or testimony before Congressional Committees. This book was like a breath of fresh air. When I finished the book I sent the person youtube the following message. "WOW!! It was nice to see that someone that is actually smart came to the same conclusion I did, and prove it."


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:59 am 
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My interest in this subject is that for years scientists have prodded, poked,investigated ,dug up and everything else about the Indians as if we are some unusual people.Yeah,we are unusual, the Creator made each of us different and he did that on purpose.It makes the world interesting.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:11 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
as i watch this thread progress i noticed that one word being used..."Creator" .... since there are people from different nations....who is this "creator"? There are very few people that want to tell me this "creators" name and what attributes it has....is it male or female... where did it come from...

in the Lakota way...takuskanskan .... that which makes all things move .... Created from inyan, maka and wi .... the judge of the Lakota "godhead" .... takuskanskan has the final say in all things even tho wi is the "chief" of the gods .... interesting isn't it..... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:38 pm 
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The Creator is the Great One ,God,The Godhead, The Great Spirit and he or she has many names.I believe that the Creator is a he and that Mother Earth or Grandmother Earth(as some people call her) is his wife.The Creator is the one who has made us,animals and everything on earth.He loves us as we are.He lets us make our own decisions in life whether it be good or bad.He wants us to choose good and to love him with all of our hearts.He is all knowing and all powerful.He wants us to pray to him and to glorify him.He loves us all.He is number one to me.This is the way I feel about him.Everyone has their own opinion about him.The Cherokees call him the Creator.In Cherokee his name is Unehlanvhi. Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:47 pm 

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:10 pm
Posts: 81
*Sigh*

The misinformation and or lack of understanding in this thread is making me a little sad. Modern science has nothing to do with colonization or dehumanizing individuals (although crooked people with crooked beliefs do use science). If that were true most humans would still be "devolved" forms of white people (as originally believed). The fact that another commonly dismayed group of individuals "Sub-Saharan Africans" (the most scummy scum on the planet: damn slaves! :lol: ) are being commonly agreed upon as the origin of all humanity says how far science has come. I am not here to shove anything down anyone’s throat, but please know what you all are talking about before you talk about it. Half of what is being debated here is ideology and not reality, which is the scary thing about this. And as for the whole Siberian thing, it is only a part of the entire story for the migration of humans to the Americas. The migration of humans to the Americas is more complex than most people make it. It took millennia and multiple waves. In fact, the last wave produced the Aleutians, Inuit, and several other groups which still inhabit Siberia. That is why it is commonly believed that most ancestral Native Americans crossed the "land bridge" because the last wave of indigenous to come to this continent are still tied to Siberia. It is most likely that Native Americans descend from some group so ancient that they have either been absorbed by new waves of central Asians or have long changed in the Eurasian landscape.


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:57 am 
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Science does say we come from what is called the "Cradle of the World" which is around Iraq.The bible says Adam and Eve came from there.But what if God made other Adams and Eves at the same time. We may be unrealistic on this thread but no one really knows until we are set before The Great One.Jennifer


Last edited by Craig on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:22 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:53 pm
Posts: 654
Wali,

I suggest you read the book before making such pronouncements. If, after you read the book you still feel the same way, then we might have a discussion.

As far as all humanity's origins being in sub-saharan I will add only this: When I presented this theory in a discussion with a friend of mine that works for esteemed university as a geneticist, his reply was "Well, that is one train of thought."

"Modern science has nothing to do with colonization or dehumanizing individuals (although crooked people with crooked beliefs do use science)."

I would have to humbly disagree with that statement. It has everything to do with colonization and dehumanizing individuals especially if they are the original inhabitants of these two continents.


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:44 am 
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Lostspirit, I read a preview of Red,Earth,White Lies and it sounds interesting.It talked about the Great Flood that Indians talked about from stories handed down and that scientists dismissed what they were saying.My husband and I when we lived in the Smokey Mountains we found a limestone fossil.It was a fossil of a large crustacean,half of its body is gone but you can clearly see the curled tail and its bone structure.It looks like a crayfish.Or if it came out of the ocean marshes it would look like a huge shrimp.We lived about 2500 or 3000 Feet high.We have wondered if it came from the Great Flood.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:07 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:53 pm
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Jennifer,

Yes, it does talk about the great flood, and sooo much more. It's a really good book!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:01 pm 

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:10 pm
Posts: 81
Craig wrote:
Science does say we come from what is called the "Cradle of the World" which is around Iraq.The bible says Adam and Eve came from there.But what if God made other Adams and Eves at the same time. We may be unrealistic on this thread but no one really knows until we are set before The Great One.Jennifer


Well Jen, I believe this is one of the primary issues. Before I delve deeper into a long winded conversation, what exactly do you mean by this statement? I will ask for some clarification before starting a long winded argument about who is right or wrong. What do you mean by "Cradle of the World"? Do you mean "birth place of humanity?" or do you mean "birth place of western civilization"? When you say that "Iraq" is the "cradle of the world"?


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:25 pm 

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:10 pm
Posts: 81
Lostspirit wrote:
Wali,

I suggest you read the book before making such pronouncements. If, after you read the book you still feel the same way, then we might have a discussion.


Whatever this means :? ? I have read plenty on the phenomenon of human evolution and as it stands at this moment, the out of Africa Thesis seems to be the most reasonable of all explanations. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
Lostspirit wrote:
As far as all humanity's origins being in sub-saharan I will add only this: When I presented this theory in a discussion with a friend of mine that works for esteemed university as a geneticist, his reply was "Well, that is one train of thought."


Who was this friend, what university did he work for, and does he have any published works that I can actually go read and then discuss with you? Could you please elaborate on what this "friend" said and what alternatives did he offer if he offered any? The issue with arguing against the out of Africa thesis is that most anatomically modern humans can trace their genetics all the way back Africa. The only groups that cannot “completely” trace back their DNA to modern anatomical humans are "Australian Aboriginals" and "Papuans" in the south west pacific. They for whatever reason have blood of both modern humans and another group of unidentified humans. Native Americans, “most” Pacific Islanders, Europeans, East Asians, Siberians, South Asians, Middle Easterners, Sub-Saharan Africans, Latin Americans, and any "admixture of these groups" however, are 100% traced back to anatomically modern humans from Africa.

Lostspirit wrote:
"Modern science has nothing to do with colonization or dehumanizing individuals (although crooked people with crooked beliefs do use science)."

I would have to humbly disagree with that statement. It has everything to do with colonization and dehumanizing individuals especially if they are the original inhabitants of these two continents.


Again, please elaborate what you mean by this. If you don't provide evidence or examples then I have nothing to agree or disagree with you on. This may or may not be true in some cases. However, the problem I have with this statement is that is over generalized and it ignores the progress that has been made in terms of human relations because of science.


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 Post subject: Re: Origins Of Indians
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:42 am 

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