Not to seem disrespectful....and not to seem like I am attempting to single out any race, religion, or person .... but how many here have actually packed up thier belongings and have made the journey to where the "Republic of Lakotah" has emcompassed its borders to be?

well, i'm so irritated because of lack of interest in the building system I got 20 years of trial and error in,I ain't coming out there till Ted Turner and his buffalo herd does

now that is suprizing considering that many were kinda gung ho on the idea .... pahanna, what do you percieve the problem to be concerning this proposition of retaking land? I have read many things and talked to other Lakota about "ROL" and it does not seem to sit well with them. Even many Elders do not agree with this plan .... may I ask your thoughts?

well i think that maybe ROL was born out of frustration and could be easily implemented in the web,the spiders web, hell, i came to ROL out of my frustration with USA, I agree with your elders though in a realistic way, cause if ROL was solid instead of webby, there would be drones flying everywhere in my guesstimation, so maybe Russell Means is testing the waters to see what people are thinking, me, i am still pissed over this banker bailout, to me them bankers are like a fly on a salt-shaker,food,clothing, shelter is what is real, before money was trading, thats my story NDNhorseman and i'm sticking to it AHO

i have to agree with you...ROL most likely was born out of frustration .... but if you look at this logically .... the US gov't has never honored the treaties it made with many indian Nations .... why would this gov't allow the taking of land to form a "new" country within its borders? It will never happen without an armed conflict .... and I truely believe the results of something of that nature would be devastating to both sides ....

as you have seen me write before .... as Lakota, we must return to traditional means and educate our young by language, customs, and modern day technology to help them keep thier identity and culture in place. We must take back our traditions and our language to survive .... many cultures have diappeared because of the loss of language and the loss of culture.

"ROL" is as you say .... only a website.... no more no less .... thanks for answering

Yet again I read bullshit on this forum coming from who ever you are. I have understood that there are many idiots and wanna be indians and hang around the fort indians, as well, that has come to this forum as your own private little facebook chat. I have read a lot of nonsens. BUT this topic and what you said of R.O.L. being born out of frustration and will always be a web site, really made me angry ain and furious. So angry that sitting in my office right now, in Sweden, wishing that I had you two in front of me so I could break your heads in two.
The movement of R.O.L. is a real fact. It is meant to happen. Why is it meant to happen? Because the country called America was never intended to ever become. But now we all have to suffer the cancer tumor called America. And we all know what that country is capable of doing and has done already hurted and massacred the first people of Turtle Island. So the R.O.L. is the answer out of poverty and being stuck in a concentration camp, at least for the Lakota indians. I am sure there are many Lakota "indians" at least they call them self indian today, but inside they have a true heart of a white man. I feel sorry for them, knowing they are ill. They are the final result of what the white christian american has wanted to acheive. But there are also those who can still see and know who they are and Oyate Wacinyapin is one of them. I agree that you have to learn your language again and your culture but don't think for a second that you can be an indian practising your way of life in a fucking zoo cage and still be free. The Lakota ancestors have not died for nothing in battle. The battle will continue and for the Republic, I will bleed.
Stop your shit talking about Russel Means! And let those who still can see lead the blind fools to freedom. Americas days are counted. They are cursed and will never find their peace. As well as I know they can take their fucking Jesus christ and stars and stripes and shuve it up their arse. I am proud of being a Lakota freedom fighter and I will continue raising money for the T.R.E.A.T.Y. School and supporting in every way that I can. There are great forces working for the Republic of Lakotah. So watch your mouth with your cowerdness speak.

/Snakeman

Snakeman, get your head out of your ass and/or get a pair of glasses,there was no shit talking against Russell Means in this conversation, other than that i appreciate your dedication to ROL,and look at the pictures on my Facebook, Steve Barineau

Hi,
I support RoL, but have no intention of moving there because my ethnic and spiritual background is white English and as such the native American traditions and cultures are not mine. But as a (Norse) Pagan and freedom seeker, I support them.

zuzeca wicasa .... chesli wayate yo .... wasicu yaun yelo

for one short moment, lets put away tribal identity .... remove ALL languages that uniquely seperate the american indian nations .... forget the different cultures .... woodland vs plains .... lets accept pan indian theology that ALL indian nations are the same .... let us for a short span of time, believe that we need to accept new age theology and ALL submit to what the new agers say is the only way for ALL of our nations to survive ....

now, lets introduce european perspective with indian perspective .... oh thats right, that already happened, didn't it? thats right, we accepted european ways in to our cultures and now we not only are watching our cultures, languages, and traditions fade away.... because of alcohol, drugs , rapes, abuses to numerous to mention ..... we will accept thier money and allow them to seat themselves deeper in to our societiy.


how can a "nation" newly formed.... if ROL was to reclaim the land promised indian nations in treaties, and still accept the same attitude that has made us fight for our very survival? Look at these people that we are accepting into our cultures .... people like snakeface ....heyokah .... these very peoples ancestors have stolen our land... made us accept thier religion .... removed our family values .... forced us to accept thier form of gov't .... and allow them to make us fight for basic human rights....

think about it .... and then ask yourself.... is this why many of the Lakota elders and people are so against this entire concept?

You summed up my own view as I wonder why anyone in ROL would want even more Europeans to invade the last remnants of what was once your free lands. That's also why I, as a European, would not move to RoL.

ok, i am gonna throw some heat on myself but hear goes, i am from a area where there is Cherokee and Catawba blood as well as Germanic, Scotch-Irish,African,and English running through our veins, back 30 years ago a man named Red Dawn whose other name was Eastman came to the Schiele Museum near where I am from, he and his adopted son Blue Eagle who was mixed-blood did a Hawk Dance at the museum and I was honored to participate,there was no charge for this ceremony , they evidently traveled around doing this because i met a boy of Choctaw heritage who met them in Mississipi, Red Dawn was probably 65-70 back then, Later on I read Ed Magaa's book Motherearth Spirituality, he said that way back a man had a vision ,this man was of what is called Catawba [Siouwion dialect]around here, he went telling his vision which was seeing something coming across the ocean toward him and his people and there was something bad in this thing,but not all of it was bad, some of the people said bullshit more or less and other people said OK let us leave, i will let you draw your own conclussion from here on that, there is a book of early Cherokee history that was and i hope still is because i can't find it online and i cant remember the authors name,but he was given a grant from the king of England to determine if the tribes hear in the New World were lost tribes of Isreal, this was early 1700's and he lived with the Cherokee and Chickasaw for 8 years and he said he thought they were lost tribes from their prayers and oblations, ok so why were they and others not given the recognition as lost tribes, in my opinion it was because of the bad part of the thing coming across the water and it still exists and has a grip on everyone, i call it the oppressor like the Bible does, in my opinion, in reality, there is no line between Bible and Lakota and to read Black Elk's vision is to honor him, even if the churches ain't got sense enough to honor his vision

actually, the Mormon Church still believes that american indians are descended from the lost tribe of Israel. But recent DNA studies have proven that there is no genetic link between either. There are many people that do believe that it is true tho. While I believe that all races of people are connected somehow.... and many belief systems are also connected .... we still have the need to maintain our tribal identity.

There are many on line "indian" communities that preach pan indianism is the only way we can survive .... yet i have questioned these people to thier ethniticity .... and have asked them to speak thier given language .... or tell me about one of thier ceremonies.... usually all i recieve is either grief, or something directly out of a book or off the internet.

This is why i have respect for people such as Paul .... he is interested in the ROL concept, but he does not want to involve himself in further depletion of indian land .... and to have him openly voice that takes courage and strength.

Many times, there are people like myself that have continued to pursue my peoples language and traditions, questioning those that say they were raised up in a traditional manner .... and being met with great resistance when the other person can not back up thier claims. It is also a fact that many full bloods look down upon the mixed blood because of these claims they can not back up. This is why I stress that language....culture...tradition are important to learn and maintain .... many reservation Lakota attempt to maintain thier tribal identity, and when those that are mixed blood continue on with english only traditions, a divide is created.

As Lakota/Dakota/Nakota people, we must purge the european perspective out of our culture and continue to remain true to our roots and our traditions. I hope that one day ALL Nations can do the same....returning to a lifestyle that promotes family and morality without having to read it in a book.

Actually, pahanna, in another post ndnhorseman did trash Russel Means.

Now, my question is for both ndnhorseman and Snakeman. Just what in the hell do you want white people to do? I have absolutely no plan or way to migrate to SD but I can, on occasion send money. You see, it makes my heart cry when I see freezing and starving people..............Pat

i do not believe i trashed leksi Russel in any post on this site... but then my perspective and yours may be different, so I will try to improve my wording in posts. As for snakeman...he is apparently not Lakota .... i am....that does not make me any better then him, but as pahanna said...he needs to look at his words and his perspective.

As for what do I want "white people" to do .... how about writing e mails or snail mail to your federal congress people demanding that ALL treaties that were made with any american Indian Nation be honored .... only support true grass root organizations that have proven track records with helping those that need help on the reservations .... support language and cultural events that benefit our youth, so they can learn to become productive within thier own first nation society .... stand against all these internet communities that support pan indianism .... and ask those that claim american indian blood and dna to help strengthen thier nation by speaking thier language and learning thier culture.

I'm a little dense. Do you mean that this is not a grass roots organization? Russel Means seems to have started this site. You, yourself remembered him from the Second Wounded Knee. Is that not grass roots enough for you? Is he not Lakotah or too Lakotah for you? Do I not send money to the propane fund in winter?

I don't mind sending out letters to congressmen & women, that is easy. But, considering all during the last two elections, Native Americans or First Tribes, were not even mentioned as a minority. If nothing else, and there is more, this site provides a way to stop that.

ok, i kinda consider myself a authority on religion basically because we had a child molesting minister at the church i went to, at age 16 i made it a point to get a good drink of liquor rather than go into a church and later on wanted to know why people went to churches, i find in the writings of Paul who changed his name from Saul the Christian killer and who James the brother of Jesus thought was a spy/mole, a story where a Jew goes to another Jew and says'come on, we are going to revolt against the Romans', the other Jew says'why you want to do that, it is peaceful now,we don't have to worry about other tribes coming to attack us' so i see this as the issue at hand as it spread from there to here, the Lakota being one of the last to be conquered, Rome is a powerful force to be reckoned with, Jesus knew this as well as Tecumseh who both as i hear it tried to get the tribes to pull together, Rome is not all bad of itself evidently as it takes the will of the people for its survival as well as a fear factor, I applaud you NDNhorseman for hanging onto Lakota language and culture as I can understand a power to those ancient words as i do in A few Cherokee words i was taught by a Cherokee brother, however our base of survival is the same as worldwide and i focus on that issue and i am not happy about a system that profits people on other peoples fear,therefor i say to you, AHO

lostspirit .... this site provides nothing more then a bunch of people argueing and bitching about the same things that have plagued ALL indian nations since the reservation and BIA were placed into action. And yes, I remember leksi Russel when AIM started and gained popularity in the early days .... then it was a neccessity .... but ask yourself this .... and this is fact, so I am not trashing leksi .... how many Lakota do you know have embraced this concept of ROL? How many Lakota embrace leksi Russels' ideaology? How many Lakota on this forum support ROL 100%? I mean no disrespect to you... as I do not know you.... are you ndn? if so... do you support your Nation?

Have you noticed how many "white" people support this site? Aren't there any old white people that need help? aren't there any poor whites that are hungry and cold in the winter? aren't there white girls that are raped by family members or outsiders they do not know? Maybe the europeans such as snakeman think us indians are to stupid to help ourselves ..... maybe they suffer a guilt complex for what thier ancestors did... i can not answer these questions....onlt these people can answer them.

I support the Lakota nation .... but I do not need to announce to the world what I do .... many times I do it without my own people knowing .... i do not seek gain from anything i do .... in the buffalo days, we did not speak about our deeds, we allowed others to speak of them and our actions showed our intentions.... we all have our own agenda .... mine is by helping my fellow Lakota....full blood and mixed blood ....

I am a human being. I have no alliegance for any country, tribe, nation, or religion. I am a free man that roams the world whereever I feel like, and build my home where I see the best fit for my family.
If you dislike me because of the color of my skin, my language, or my culture then you are no different than your oppressors.
The US will not cease to exist anytime soon, and unfortunatly you have been conquered by a technologicaly superior tribe. Is it fair? Is it right? Of course not.
The reservations will only kill you slowly. Adapt and fight with the same weapons.
In order to survive, the japanese changed their ways of life. They killed their own samurais and adapt to a western culture in order to compete, and survive.
Obviously, what you have done is not working. Survival to the fittest is the rule. Changing is surviving.
I do not agree with this system of nations and power, but this world is the present reality. Maybe, it is time to let the past go in order to save the future native generations. The right choice is never the best option.

well i think we could all be sovern individuals with our ancient cultures for guidance if there was no oppressor element,however i may be prejudiced in my thinking because of getting waylaid on promoting passive-solar housing,i think iwas caught in the Carter/Reagon squeeze, Carter tried to move us toward a solar future and the Reagon crowd was/is for oil cause that is where their bread and butter is