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 Post subject: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Tecumseh,A Life by John Sugden http://www.openisbn.com/author/John_Sugden.Put in on the search engine John Sugden's name and put the arrow on the book and then read online.The story should come up.Here is another book; History Of Alabama and incidently Georgia and Mississippi from the earliest period by Albert Pickett,Accounts of the Shawnees,Creeks,Choctaws, and Cherokees.http://www.archive.org/details/historya ... 00montgoog .....You can also listen to the last book mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:57 pm 
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This is from Chiksika,elder brother of Tecumseh,to Tecumseh,March19,1779-When a white man kills an Indian in a fair fight it is called honorable,but when an Indian kills a white man in a fair fight it is called murder.When a white army battles Indians and wins it is called a victory,but if they lose it,it is called a massacre and bigger armies are raised.If the Indian flees before the advance of such armies,when he tries to return he finds that white men are living where he lived.If he tries to fight off such armies he is killed and the land is taken anyways.When an Indian is killed it is a great loss which leaves a gap in our people and a sorrow in our hearts; when a white is killed,three or four others step up to take his place and there is no end to it.The white man seeks to conquer nature,to bend it to his will and to use it wastefully til it is gone and then he simply moves on,leaving the waste behind him and looking for new places to take.The whole white race is a monster who is always hungry and what he eats is the land.


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:06 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Iowa
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The white man seeks to conquer nature,to bend it to his will and to use it wastefully til it is gone and then he simply moves on,leaving the waste behind him and looking for new places to take.The whole white race is a monster who is always hungry and what he eats is the land.

Without a doubt Chiksika was a man of far-sightedness as so many ndn's were. Why don't we whites ever listen and take heed? I live in the area where the Black Hawk War was fought, (named for the Salk chief who fought for his people and land). He stated: "whites were in the habit of saying one thing to the Indians and putting another thing down on paper." As a child, and also as an adult I did take my own children, and travel the few miles and visit Apple River Fort in Elizabeth, IL and revel in the stories of the "brave pioneers". No more. I hope to some day take my grandchildren and tell them about the courage and valor of Chief Black Hawk and the Salk along with the Mesquakie http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/black_hawk/black_hawk_address.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 178
Location: north carolina
i guess yall know it is still going on, the Indian philosophy is the American philosophy and some in this country know that and many dont know shit excuse my french, to me to seach for the truth of the situation is a step to command of the situation, to call this a racial situation is a falacy in my opinion and weakens resolve to the situation, it is a intelligence situation and to think the rich have insight over the non rich is a fallacy , the disinformation that has been put out has thorn good people into idiocy, the perpetraitors have no soul to speak of , they are always thinking ahead to try and cover their tracks, that is why they got major control of media, i am hearing we are about ready to take them down but if enough time lapses they will take their selve down but why wait that long cause they are stupid with money


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:28 pm 
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Location: Iowa
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the perpetraitors have no soul to speak of

I agree, pahanna. To me that is the gist of the problem; they have sold their souls for money, power, and other things that cause harm not only to themselves but to all living things on the earth. I believe spirituality is the key.
"Traditional people of Indian nations have interpreted the two roads that face the light-skinned race as the road to technology and the road to spirituality. We feel that the road to technology.... has led modern society to a damaged and seared earth. Could it be that the road to technology represents a rush to destruction, and that the road to spirituality represents the slower path that the traditional native people have traveled and are now seeking again? The earth is not scorched on this trail. The grass is still growing there."

-William Commanda, Mamiwinini, Canada, 1991 The Sacred Tree
http://www.renaud.ca/public/Letters_of_Support/2011-01-05_GWC_MiniBio.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:42 am 
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I have been reading the Cherokee 1835 Treaty of New Echota this morning because I was wondering why my family was allowed to stay on their ancestral lands in NE Alabama and why they were not removed to the West.I found the answer.I have read it before but reading it this time things became clear to me.My ancestral uncle, William A.Davis was stated on the treaty as one of the ones along with John Ridge and Elias Boudinot who wanted to go out West.From reading letters, I found, that some of my family wrote ,I understood why they wanted to leave their lands.They were tired of the continous unrest and turmoil that the white man was putting them through.They just wanted peace.Reading that treaty ,it was nothing but a big argument.I know the Cherokees did not want to leave their lands because the rest of my family did not leave.My family did not leave under these provisions just like the Qualla boundary Cherokees of NC did not have to leave.Article 12 states that those individuals and families of the Cherokee Nation that are adverse to a removal to the Cherokee country west of the Mississippi and are desirous to become citizens of the states where they reside and such are qualified to take care of themselves and their property shall be entitled to receive their due portion of all the personal benefits accruing under this treaty for their claims,improvements and per capita;as soon as an appropiation is made for this treaty.Such heads of Cherokee families as are desirous to reside within the states of North Carolina,Tennessee,and Alabama subject to the laws of the same and who are qualified to become useful citizens shall be entitled on the certificate of the commisioner to a pre-emption right to 160 acres of land or one quarter section at minimum Congress price............ I have known for a long time that the North Carolina Cherokees had to re-buy their land back.Now I see my family had to buy their land back ,too.So,the US government and the white man steals their land and then they had to buy it back if they wanted to stay on it!!! If you were a poor Cherokee or a Georgia Cherokee at that time you were just s... out of luck.You had to leave your home no matter what you wanted.So my ancestral uncle and his family went on the Trail of Tears to live in the West and his sisters stayed in Alabama with their aging parents.No matter what any Cherokee wanted Andrew Jackson and his cronies were going to have their way and it was to destroy the Cherokees.The more I read about Indian history the more upset I get.Well,he didn't get rid of us.We are still here!!! Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:24 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 178
Location: north carolina
Jennifer, there is a book called 'Our Mountain Heritage' that revealed a lot to me. When the Cherokee Nation formed in late 1700s they basiclly adopted US Constitution, some Cherokee would not join because they said it polluted Old Law, so thet got land grants from surrounding states, in defense of generalization of whites William Thomas, who worked at a trading post as a boy was adopted by Yonaguska, Thomas later owned the trading post and made a lot of money, when the Removal took place which was over greed for tax money and gold, Thomas went and had the land of different Cherokee in that area put in trust because a lot of the people were behind on taxes and the US government thru the states went to pushing for collection during that timeframe, Thomas spent alot of time in DC trying to stop Removal as well as Henry Clay


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:30 am 
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Thanks,Pahanna I will read that book of Our Mountain Heritage.I hope you haven't taken too much offense of what I have been saying ,since I am white ,too. William Thomas was a good man and fought for the Cherokees and was even in charge of a Cherokee Civil War unit.If it wasn't for Wm.Thomas there weren't be Cherokees in NC today..I don't know anything about Henry Clay's help.I know that the Removal was a big mess.Jennifer


Last edited by Craig on Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:57 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
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Location: north carolina
no offense taken, that history runs pretty deep in my blood, Like Thermlin writes you got to know the history you come from to know where you are going as painfull as it is


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:00 pm 
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If I have heard the story right on Wm. Holland Thomas,his father died before he was born. His mother and her family were passing through Cherokee lands and his mother gave him to a Cherokee that raised him as his own because her and her family were too sick to care for him.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
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Location: north carolina
i read he was indentured to the man that owned the trading post when he 11-12 yrs old because his family had so many children


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Whoa,we have 2 different stories here.I have always been into basketmaking and I checked out a book from the library on Cherokee basketmaking.It was probably 4 or 5 years ago when I checked it out.It talked about Will Thomas in the book.They said that what was told about him(what I said above) came from Yonaguska's family.Maybe we need to do more investigating into his life to find out what is the truth.I just looked online to see if I could find the title to that book because I couldn't remember the name of it.It is Weaving New Worlds by Sarah H.Hill.I might go to the library and see if I can find it.I wouldn't mind reading it again anyways.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 178
Location: north carolina
yea, i cant remember the name of the book i read, i read 13 Moons by ?Ehler written 4-5 years ago, it was written as a fiction which i thought a little strange but it is about William Thomas and that timeframe


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:39 am 
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I found an amendment on The New Echota Treaty.Andrew Jackson did away with article 12 and 13.So that makes me go back to the drawing board-Why didn't my family be removed to the West? It may be just what Pahanna said,the Cherokees basically were accepting the constitution at that time.My thoughts were that the girls stayed because their mother was in her late 70s and their father was in his 80s at that time.Maybe it was because their father fought in the Revolutionary War. He also was a Chicamaugan Chief.One day I will find out the reason.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 178
Location: north carolina
i dont know but i suspect they got land grants like a lot did, there was intermarriage in that timeframe and some moved in with white relatives, the Removal was a political issue as much as anything, the Cherokee could have been a competitive nation against the government, the Removal changed that for the worst as it appears to me right now, but you know what they say about opinions, i read where John Wesley the founder of Methodist,after visiting with Cherokee, stated leave them alone,they are living the Way, he went back to England, Daniel Asbury was the man that brought Methodist to America, Chief Junaluska went to Oklahoma and walked back to what is Junaluska which is the Methodist Conference Center for W North Carolina,i know one of my ancestors was against Removal, i am more concerned with the future than the past but it helps to know history as timeconsuming it can be


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
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Location: north carolina
well i am glad that the Nations still exist in this land cause they help to hedge my position as a American which dont look real good right now


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Yeah,Pahanna I am more concerned with the future ,too.I wonder if mankind is going to make it with all the destruction that is going on.I worry about all the diseases that is affecting mankind.But I love history,too.It has always been a passion of mine since I was in school.Only thing now, is that most of what I learned in school was a lie.I found out the other day that the killing of Pres.Lincoln's was not only by John Wilkes Booth but a plot by 7 or 8 people including a woman.Did we ever learn that in school? I wasn't even taught American Indian history.It was like it was omitted off the face of the Earth other than what a wonderful first Thanksgiving it was with the Indians.But in reality it was a celebration by the Pilgrims of killing the Wampanaughs.I have been doing a lot of like catch up work on it for the last 2 years,especially since getting the shock of my life that I am not just white like I grew up thinking I was.Indian history will fascinate me for the rest of my life.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: Online reading of the history of Eastern Indians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 178
Location: north carolina
Jennifer, i like studying history to, it is good to get shed of lies we were taught, helps to restore common sense, i go to a forum that has 2000+ people from the world alhel the time, and somebody posted about the Illuminati and why they dont reveal their secrets, and finally somebody posted that was bullshit they dont have any secrets, just a gimmick to try and keep control, the bankers killed Lincoln and they blamed it on the south, they wanted the Civil War to get more control than they had, they wrote the history to remove the fact that there is more indians in this country than they want people to know and to try and keep people at each other, it is a mafia organization like other people are saying, we will see, things are moving pretty quick these days


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