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 Post subject: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:29 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:23 pm
Posts: 47
Archaeologists have discovered the ruins of an ancient Mayan city in the mountains of North Georgia believed to be at least 1,100 years old. According to Richard Thornton at Examiner.com, the ruins are reportedly what remains of a city built by Mayans fleeing wars, volcanic eruptions, droughts and famine.

In 1999, University of Georgia archeologist Mark Williams led an expedition to investigate the Kenimer Mound, a large, five-sided pyramid built in approximately 900 A.D. in the foothills of Georgia’s tallest mountain, Brasstown Bald. Many local residents has assumed for years that the pyramid was just another wooded hill, but in fact it was a structure built on an existing hill in a method common to Mayans living in Central America as well as to Southeastern Native American tribes.

Speculation has abounded for years as to what could have happened to the people who lived in the great Meso-American societies of the first century. Some historians believed that they simply died out in plagues and food shortages, but others have long speculated about the possibility of mass migration to other regions.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/22/1 ... k.facebook


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Wow,isn't that something about the pyramid.I live in North Georgia, about an hour away from Brasstown Bald and I am Cherokee.My ancestors were Principal Chief Blackfox,Attacullaculla, the Peace Chief and Oconostota, the War Chief and Moytoy, the Emperor of the Cherokees.I have often thought that the Cherokees were part of the Mayans. Maybe it is so.Both of their calendars end on 12-21-2012.When I was a little girl, I lived in Mississippi for 2 or 3 years. I played on Indian mounds.They were in the woods behind my house.They were about 4 feet high, flat on top, and about the size of a large living room.Children that lived nearby told me they were Indian mounds. On another note, my ancestral uncle, Dragging Canoe {son of Attacullaculla}in 1775 begged his people not to sell their land.He predicted the ruin of the red man.He said that they would be driven ever westward and their lands would be taken from them even there.How true it is, even today.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:44 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:23 pm
Posts: 47
Craig wrote:
Wow,isn't that something about the pyramid.I live in North Georgia, about an hour away from Brasstown Bald and I am Cherokee.My ancestors were Principal Chief Blackfox,Attacullaculla, the Peace Chief and Oconostota, the War Chief and Moytoy, the Emperor of the Cherokees.I have often thought that the Cherokees were part of the Mayans. Maybe it is so.Both of their calendars end on 12-21-2012.When I was a little girl, I lived in Mississippi for 2 or 3 years. I played on Indian mounds.They were in the woods behind my house.They were about 4 feet high, flat on top, and about the size of a large living room.Children that lived nearby told me they were Indian mounds. On another note, my ancestral uncle, Dragging Canoe {son of Attacullaculla}in 1775 begged his people not to sell their land.He predicted the ruin of the red man.He said that they would be driven ever westward and their lands would be taken from them even there.How true it is, even today.Jennifer


Yes it is fascinating. Thank you for sharing your history. There is definitely a difference in the face shape, some Native Indians do look like Mayans and some are much more fine featured.

I wonder if any Native Indians have had any DNA testing. It is proving to be very revealing.

Some African Americans that were told they had some native indian ancestry have been shown that they don't by the DNA test. The videos about it are on youtube.

As the truth goes, the truth will set the people free.

Country land in the UK has largely been protected by the farmers for generations. However, I see there are changes coming as many of the children do not wish to be farmers or take over the running of the farms. That does not bode well for the UK, because it means the lands will be sold off to the corporations for the growing of food. Land in private hands will no longer be the case. However, I do not view that England will be a safe place to be, all of the Islands are vulnerable to the environmental factors that are coming to be.

Love beyond measure Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:39 pm
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Location: Traditional homeland of the Shawnee
This is a very interesting story. It is well known that most of the nations in the amerikas were migratory at one time or another. I read a book years ago called the "Trail of the Souix", which follows the Souian language from the South Carolina area all the way to the Minnesoata area. There have been artifacts found in the Anastazi ruins, from the end of their period, that greatly resemble Mayan relics. The Lenapi are called the"grandfather nation" of all the Aglonquin speaking nations. they are the nation from which all of the Aglonquin nations can trace their roots back to. At the time of the white invasion the Aglonquin speaking nations stretched from eastern canada to virginia and west to the mississippi river.

Craig wrote:
I have often thought that the Cherokees were part of the Mayans.


I am unsure of the validity of this statement because the Cherokee language is Iroquoian in origin. They were concidered the southern most Iroquois speaking nation. 1100 years ago would put it about the same time period of the Mississippian Culture, the builders of Cahokia in present day St. Louis. It is well known that there were extensive trade routes over the amerikas in late antiquity. Obsidian from the Black Hills have been found in Adena mounds in the Ohio Valley. The Adena Culture existed some 3000 years ago. Copper also found in the mounds from Lake superior region, abalone from the pacific coast has also been found in the mounds of the Hopewell and Adena sites.

I do conceed the possibility that there was a Mayan population in Ga. For all that the white man thinks he knows, he probably only knows 10% of it. Some of the nations in the southwest region of the us are related to the Zapotec, from central mexico.


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:40 pm 
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I maybe wrong about the Cherokees being part of the Mayans,but it is just my feelings.What makes me think it is so, is that I read about a Mayan priest that said there were stories passed down from generations to generations among their priests and that they were part of the Atlantis people and the Creator sent them down in a large hole in Mexico to protect them from impending doom and they crawled out of the hole like ants after the disaster was over with and their lives were spared. Also the Cherokee Sequoyah{inventor of the Cherokee syllabary} went to find Cherokee family{ a tribe in Mexico} , got ill while traveling and died in a cave there in Mexico near his Cherokee family. His grave has been recently found.Sequoyah predicted that one day, a young boy ,part of the Cherokee tribe in Mexico would lead U.S.Cherokees to his grave and that is what happened.Sequoyah was one of my cousins.The Cherokees broke off from the Shawnees and the Powhatens. My ancestors from the Shawnees were Chief Big Turkey Cornstalk. Chief Cornstalk 1, Chief Cornstalk 2, and Chief Cornstalk 3.Chief Big Turkey Cornstalk's great grandfather was Powhaten Wahunsenacawh (Pocahantas' father.)His grandmother was Pocahantas' sister Cleopatra.Chief Constalk's 2 father was Chief Wahunsencawh and his mother Shawnee Nonoma .Chief Powhaten Wahunsencawh had 22 wives and 49 children.I am kin to him 4 times. Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 176
Location: north carolina
how do they know it is 1100 years old? are you familiar with Judaculla Rock near Bryson City i think,?Jennifer Craig


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:29 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
had to check this one out because it seemed really intresting... i read a rebuttal by the archeologist that studied this site, and he said that this is totally untrue. the story gained popularity when it made its rounds on facebook.

as for the Tsalgi being Mayan descendants ... i live in Missouri....close to tribal lands in Oklahoma... i have never heard any Tsalgi even remotely think this... but hey. you never know


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:58 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 176
Location: north carolina
Judaculla Rock is big soapstone boulder with strange symbols on it,i have heard some Cherokee storys of a giant called Judaculla,i have never been to it, it is not on the reservation, i knew a guy who worked for the state N.C. at Gateway Mountain Museum in Old Fort,N.C., he said this boulder was on his family land near Bryson City, i understand a lot of people go study this boulder including Cherokee to decipher it, it is strange to me that culla is a Hebrew word meaning curse and blessing meaning can denote both, a full Cherokee brother taught me some words, a-ma means water and it also means love


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:45 pm 
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I know of Judaculla Rock and it is near Bryson City N.C.It's in Jackson Co.N.C.,the next county over.The Tsalgis used to hold sacred ceremonies around it in the 1800s.My ancestor Moytoy also known as Amatoya meaning water conjuror.He the the Emperor of the Cherokees.He was known to find water, like water witching with a forked tree branch.I have never lived on the Cherokee N.C. reservation.I have been there many times in my lifetime.I was there in June 2011.It is a very beautiful place.I have lived 30 min. away from it though, in the Smokey Mountains near Gatlinburg Tennessee at the N.C. line.The first time I went to Cherokee N.C. I was 2 years old. I am now 58. My mother said I chased a black bear cub.It scared her half to death.She said I ran after it saying "doggie, doggie". I have always been fascinated by the black bear. It has become my spirit guide.My home is decorated with black bears.My family were the Chicamaugans of the Cherokees .They were from N. E. Alabama.My ancestor Chief Blackfox was given Creekpath Alabama after he signed treaties ceding N. E. Alabama,N. W. Georgia and S. E. Tennessee.Creekpath Ala. is presently Guntersville Ala.There is a reservation there today. It is not a federal one, but a state one.Guntersville is were my mother's parents were born and raised and my mother was born in Scottsboro Alabama, the next town over,also Cherokee land.N. E. Alabama was also part of N. Georgia at one time.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 176
Location: north carolina
i am 58 and am from Lincolnton,N.C., my best friend growing up mother was Cherokee from around Johnson City, Tenn, i went a couple times with them to visit her parents, they had a little farm, i dont know about native heritage in my background, only some civil war stuff, 2 of my girlfriends along the way new they were Cherokee, ones dad moved down here from the rez before she was born, her dads name is Huskey, i found out that when the Cherokee Nation formed that some Cherokee refused to join it because they said it polluted the old law, so they got land grants with the states at that time, Chief Junaluska went on the Trail of Tears but he walked back, that is why there is Junaluska,N.C. it is a Methodist conferense town, 3 Methodist ministers went to prison resisting the Removal, i know the 4 sisters that raised my granny whose mama went nuts , their dad was a Methodist to the Creek before removal, he was not happy about Removal, i guess that is why my granny told me to take the Bible with a grain of salt, my granny went to teach in a one room school when she was 18 down in S. Geo. where met my grandad, they moved back up here to look after the 4 sisters that raised her cause they never married, i never knew him, he died when my dad was 13 from black widow spider they say, about 1930, my mom was from S.C. not to far from the Catawba Rez, she died when she was 57, she was very shy, she saw her mom get run over bt a drunck deputy sheriff when she was 6, she never talked it, my dad told me that,talking about the lack bear, i met woman at a Cherokee fast whose mama is from the Rez, she said she found out she was from Bear Clan, her last name is Fox, there is disagreement about if if Cherokee had Bear Clan, i finally heard from one it is a part of Wild Potato Clan


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:39 pm
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Location: Traditional homeland of the Shawnee
Cherokee are an Iroquois speaking nation, the Shawnee are Aglonquin. They were mortal enemies up until the time of
Tecumseh. It is said the Cherokee have held their lands in the Smokey Mtns for 2000 years. The Shawnee are decended from the Lenapi, the Deleware. The two have never been of the same nation.


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:56 am 
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All I know is that I come from both Shawnee and Cherokee and Powhaten.Ask Cherokee people about this. Look up Don Greene's book Shawnee Heritage 1 and Shawnee Heritage 2.You will see Cherokees in there.You will see all the ancient Cherokees in there.My ancestor Blackfox is in there. How come Cherokees and Shawnees married ?Look up Yancey's Kin genealogy.Look up Don Panther Yates genealogy about Moytoy's genealogy.We have the same family from Alabama.His work is in the Cherokee Museum. He does DNA testing.The Cherokee original lands were Ga.,Ala.,N.C,.Tenn.,Va. and S.C. and also they lived in Ky.I got proof on my ancestor Blackfox living in Creekpath Ala.Look up Volunteer Voices in Tenn.There is a letter in Blackfox own handwriting from Creekpath,Ala.writing to Gov. Sevier of Tenn.Tennessee was their main villages.Cherokee N.C. was part of the original lands bought with the help of William Holland Thomas ,a white man that the Cherokees adopted as a child.My family also lived in Va.,Ky.Tn. and then moved to Ala.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:36 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
jennifer... i am glad to see that someone has done ample research on thier geneology .... to many just want to say they are indian because they heard from a family member, or that they are indian at heart .... so this is a question i like to pose to many... do you speak the Tsalgi or Shawnee language? Do you understand and know the traditions and ceremonies of your people?

I do not ask these questions to make you look silly, but to encourage you to understand your people and help stregnthen your nation by learning and participating in your culture.

Many times people only want others to know who they are .... i am a believer that YOU should know who you are .... remember... learn your language and you will learn about your people .... learn about your people and you will learn about your culture ... learn about your culture and you will learn your traditions and songs .... and then one day you will be able to pass all that knowledge on to one that has the same desire as you.... to perserve your people ....


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:29 pm 
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ndnhorseman,Thank you for your reply.It is not silly what you said.I am learning Cherokee.My New Year's resolution is to learn a Cherokee word a day.That will give me 365 words of knowing, by this time next year.I think,no, I know I can manage this in a year.I am also learning about the Cherokee traditions.I was there in Cherokee N.C. last June.I danced traditional dances with them.It started raining just as we were finishing the last dance. We all laughed and said we did a rain dance.I told them, that I told my husband ,before we got there in Cherokee, I was going to do a dance to make it rain and that is what happened.We all laughed.I talked to a history teacher and scholar there, a Cherokee member, about my family.He said I was Cherokee royalty and that my family was in the middle of all their history.I would love to join their tribe but I can't because my direct ancestors did not sign the Dawes or the Baker roll books.Some of my Aunts, Uncles and cousins did.I am a gardener and a basket maker and a craft person and have been doing things like this all of my life. I am a herbalist at my job. I talk to people about their health each day I work.I love helping people. I feel like these are part of my traditions that I have been doing before I knew I was ndn.It was always in me. Thanks again.Jennifer


Last edited by Craig on Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 176
Location: north carolina
i was told that Old Fort, N.C. was a location where Cherokee, Shawnee and Catawba would meet to trade their goods, i was told the British put a stop to this annual trading and it started up some warpath activity


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Posts: 87
Location: Traditional homeland of the Shawnee
The Shawnee and Cherokee did intramarry once they realized they had a common enemy, and they formed and alliance. But before the whites began pushing against all nations, the two tribes were enemies. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" After the amerikan revolution, the Lenapi, Deleware, actually lived among the Iroqupis near niagra falls, because the whites werre indiscriminate killers of all the nations. The story of Francis Slocum details this grudgingly alliance. In 1868 the Cheyenne made peace with the comanche, also a mortal enemy before that time. The Arapaho and Cheyenne fought with Quanna Parker until the battle of Pala Duro Canyon, when col. Mc Kennzie slaughtered over 5000 ponies. Within a few months Quanna finally surrendered.

I do not dispite you lineage. I only dispute the statement that the cherokee and Shawnee were of the same nation, at one time. You are fortunate you can trace your heritage so far back. I am one of those NDN is refering to as only haveing oral tradition about heritage. I take no offense to his statement, because he is right. I am researching my family tree looking for proof to back up my elders statements. The only proof I have at this time is a statement from my dentist. One small physical trait carries very little weight when defining heritage.

AS NDN said, learn the Cherokee and Shawnee language and traditions, so they do not die. Language and tradition are what makes a people, The People.


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:23 pm 
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The reason I thought they were of one nation because of them intermarrying.They did become enemies.The Cherokees took the Shawnees in because of the Chickasaws and regretted it.The Shawnees then became dangerous.What kind of teeth do you have? My 2 front teeth has horizontal ridges on them called double-shovel teeth and I have talon cusps teeth.I also have a few shovel teeth with a ledge in the back of them.This is also proofs of being an Indian.I know I have Indian ancestry but I do not how much blood I have.I am also Scotch- Irish.Both of my grandmother's were Indian ,but it's my grandmother on my mother's side that has the history. I found very little history on my father's side.He was Cherokee and Creek. Indian history is so hard to trace.I have been doing genealogy since the 80's.I did not know about my Indian history until Oct.2010.I was not told any stories by my grandmothers. Indians have been degraded so much, I think they were embarrassed by it.They both looked Indian.I have always been told I look like both of them.I have dark hair,squinty brown eyes and high cheek bones.I don't have dark skin, but father did,my brother and my sister does.I have always been told I had a different look or a distinguished look.Now I know why.I have a grandson from my daughter who is 4.He looks full-blooded.I always wondered why all 7 of my grandchildren looked liked Eskimo babies when they were born.My son who is fair and blonde but has Indian features and his wife is blonde,when they had their daughter, who was dark and looked like an Indian when she was born.They got asked where did she come from? Whose child is she? My son replied and said that they had been eating at the Mexican restaurant too much! That was before we knew who we are.Jennifer


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:45 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 176
Location: north carolina
when the town of Old Fort incorparated back in 1930s, they invited the then Cherokee chief and Catawba chief to come and smoke peace pipe, there is a big arrowhead monument to commerate the occasion


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:18 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 95
jennifer... there is no need to "prove" who you are .... many come here and want to be "indian" .... what i attempt to promote is "BE indian" if thats what you are. As american indian people...first nation people for those who are politically correct .... we need to do away with the streeo types of sacredness and being noble. We are human beings bottom line. To be indian you must carry the DNA ... as far as DNA testing is concerned ... it is just another way for dominant society to make a person "prove" who thery are, and make money while causing decension amongst the people.

i am a nobody.... i only study Lakota ways and Lakota language... for thats who i am. I do not promote pan indian ways ... i do not attempt to greet one from another nation in thier language .... nor do i have the need to prove to anyoner who i am. There is enough division amonst the full bloods and the mixed bloods as it is.

many times this site promotes the tribal unity thing... we have proved in the past that it does not work .... its not that we can not get along...its the point of tribal identity .... that is why we do not have the same languages .... the same ceremonies, or the same traditions. this is why i ask many about thier language skills and thier traditional skills .... what brought them here?

if you look at our cousin Ghostwarrior.... you will see how he is concerned for his people on Crow Creek .... he is involved in tribal politics...he is involved with his people. This is how we should ALL be. If we create change from within our own families and communities.... change will overtake ALL nations.


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 Post subject: Re: 1,100 year old Mayan pyramid found in Georgia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:52 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:07 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Kespukwitk
Hi all, great posts here. I'm including a commemorative article on a Catawba Elder, who lived in the North East. I had the opportunity to know him, and spend time with him for many years before he passed on. A wonderful man steeped in his traditions and language, and according to this article, the last fluent speaker of the Catawba language.


'Red Thunder Cloud, a member of the Catawba Nation who was steeped in the history of the American Indians, died Monday [January, 1996] in Worcester, Mass. He was the last human link to the ancient language of his people.

Thunder Cloud, who was 76, died in St. Vincent's Hospital after a stroke, friends said Thunder Cloud was also know as Carlos Westez and lived in Northbridge, Mass. He was a storyteller and earned money from selling his own line of teas from herbs that he collected in the woods around his home.

"It's always sad when the last living speaker of a language dies," Carl Teeter, emeritus professor of linguistics at Harvard University, said on Friday. "There were once 500 languages in North America. About a hundred are still spoken, and half of them are spoken by older people." Dr. Teeter said the Catawba language, like others, had died off because of prejudice. Not so long ago, he said, Americans who spoke Indian languages "weren't treated too well."

Dr. Teeter described Catawba, an oral language with no written form, as related to the Sioux family of languages. He said the similarity indicated that there may have been considerable movement among Indian tribes hundreds of years ago.

In the 1940's, Thunder Cloud made a complete recording of all he knew of the Catawba language for the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. About that time, he also recorded some ancient Catawba songs for the Smithsonian Institution. Derek Jordan of Putney, Vt., a friend of Thunder Cloud's, recorded two albums of Catawba songs and legends by Thunder Cloud in 1990.

Mr. Jordan said Thunder Cloud had learned Catawba as a boy from his grandfather, Strong Eagle, and from tribal elders. Eventually, there were only two Catawba speakers left: Thunder Cloud and a woman, who died about 40 years ago.

Foxx Ayers of Columbia, S.C., a Catawba and friend of Thunder Cloud, recalled on Friday that he resisted his grandmother's efforts to teach him the language because he feared he would be ridiculed. "I wish now that I'd learned," said. Ayers, 71.

Mr. Ayers recalled one happy experiment with the language. One day years ago, he was visiting Thunder Cloud, who used to sell pottery made by Mr. Ayer's wife, Sarah, who is also a Catawba. Mr. Ayers's arms were full of pottery when he found his way blocked by Thunder Cloud's dog. The dog responded only to commands in Catawba. So Ayers tried one phrase he had heard Thunder Cloud use (roughly "Swie hay, tanty," or "Move, dog"), and the dog obeyed.

Alice Kasakoff, a professor of anthropology at the University of South Carolina, said the conversion of many Catawbas after visits by Mormon missionaries to their enclave in South Carolina may have hastened the decline of the Indian language.

Estimates of the number of living Catabaws range from several hundred to more than 1,000. The nation's headquarters is in Rock Hill, S.C.

In its scarcity of close relationships, Thunder Cloud's life seemed to foreshadow the passing of the language only he spoke. Mr. Ayers said he recalled that Thunder Cloud was married for a time to a Blackfeet woman, but that the union dissolved.

Lenora Pena of Center Falls, R.I., who described herself as Thunder Cloud's closest friend, said he prayed each night in Catawba.

Thunder Cloud left no known survivors. Ms. Pena said that Thunder Cloud had a sister but that they had lost track of each other many years ago.'


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